NWW 5 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Hey guys, I'm in the market for a new client, but I can't seem to find one that I like. It should: - Play .mkv natively - Decode DTS-HD MA and TrueHD - read internal subtitles (.pgs, sub/idx) and external (.srt) - All without transcoding. The TV I want to put this client at is a Samsung D8000 that has the first two requirements down, but not the subtiltes. I looked at the Chromecast, but Wireless<Wired, and I think it transcodes subtitles. The only devices I can think of is a full on HTPC, but that's out of my price range. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macburp 109 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 If XBMC with the XBMB3C plug-in does what you want, I suggest the Asus Chromebox, hacked to run Openelec (the hack is straightforward to do I believe). I'd have one myself, but I don't like XBMC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihmos 147 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) XBMX is pretty good and the only thing I don't like about it is the way live tv works. Everything else is superb for a video player. It runs on low powered device and is probably your best option along with using the XBMB3C plugin. I almost forgot about the roku which imo is an excellent device with a wide range of apps/channels. It wouldn't do DTS-HD but I honestly cannot tell the difference. Edited November 28, 2014 by Deihmos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWW 5 Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 Thanks guys for the answers. Doesn't XBMC run on HTPC's? As for the Chromebox, it's a little out of my price range. It's a shame that .mkv's are so problematic on for different reasons on different devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyname 194 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Thanks guys for the answers. Doesn't XBMC run on HTPC's? As for the Chromebox, it's a little out of my price range. It's a shame that .mkv's are so problematic on for different reasons on different devices. well your client should be an htpc so I'm not sure about the audio part but raspberry pi with openelec on it plays everything i throw at it, so that might be a solution as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWW 5 Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 I would like to avoid an HTPC as much as possible (footprint, heat output/noise from fans, price, power usage) and it is for my parents so I'd rather not have them deal with HTPCs. A raspberry pi, I'd have to look into that more. I'm looking into the Roku more, can anyone confirm that using .mkvs (full bluray rips) don't trigger the server to encode? What about external subs? Internal subs? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_slayer 103 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I would like to avoid an HTPC as much as possible (footprint, heat output/noise from fans, price, power usage) and it is for my parents so I'd rather not have them deal with HTPCs. A raspberry pi, I'd have to look into that more. I'm looking into the Roku more, can anyone confirm that using .mkvs (full bluray rips) don't trigger the server to encode? What about external subs? Internal subs? Thanks. It's for your parents as in you want to direct stream everything to a different household? Or the same household? If you are trying to direct stream your media outside your house and your server contains full-bitrate mkv blu-ray rips then you are probably going to have issues. Your upstream bandwidth (upload speed in a speedtest) is probably not sufficient to sustain 36-60 Mbps (which is what you would need to direct stream to a different house Although you may have a fiber connection with sufficient upstream bandwidth, or this isn't a different house ~ just thought I would mention it since if you are transcoding anyway then you might as well get a little fanless arm box (which you seem to be somewhat set on for the price/usability/noise factor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_slayer 103 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 If you are still intent on direct streaming full bitrate rips (perhaps this is indeed inside your LAN or you have a fiber connection at home) . . . I'd suggest learning a little more about OpenELEC. It's not your typical HTPC. Instead of anything existing in "the background" you have what feels like a "bare-metal" front-end. Add the XBMB3C plugin and your golden. It should run nicely on a J1900 booting from either a cheap sata/pcie SSD (20GB or less can be had for under $30 if you are willing to try some no-name chinese stuff from Amazon) OR it runs just as well off of a USB flash drive. You can build a barebones J1900+2GB RAM+USB3 boot drive+60W Pico PSU for variable pricing (I could do it for about $90 but I have a case, memory, and flash drive lying around already). It would be fanless and play everything thrown at it, and I believe it idles at around 9W Not sure what your pricepoint is, what spare parts you may already have, and how creative you are willing to get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWW 5 Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 Thanks for the answers guys. Sorry I should have mentionned, server and clients are in the same LAN. I really want to avoid transcoding. I had hope that the new sticks (like the chromecast or Roku) would solve that but alas, they don't. And since subtitles are essential (they don't speak English), that's why I need the clients to read subs. I will take a look at OpenELEC, but if I build a barbones pc, I might as well install Windows on it (as I have licenses lying around) and using MBT. (and with the recent news that Windows 10 will support .mkv natively, no need for lav or other codec packs.) Pricepoint isn't set in stone, and no parts are currently available to be used in another build. This is why I would prefer an off the shelf solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_slayer 103 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I will take a look at OpenELEC, but if I build a barbones pc, I might as well install Windows on it (as I have licenses lying around) and using MBT. (and with the recent news that Windows 10 will support .mkv natively, no need for lav or other codec packs.) Windows is of course your prerogative. I have an unused license as well, but I consider it a huge step backwards for the HTPCs I leave at my families houses to be running windows. In my experience for the past few years, small embedded celeron systems that would run a front-end just fine and playback HD audio/video just fine were too weak to perform well with windows. The j1900 is supposed to be a decent performer in windows, and after a lengthy explanation battle with Intel consumers finally received a software update that allowed it to bitstream hd audio (though that feature worked from launch in openelec since it didn't require a DRM-laden PAP like windows did). Many pros/cons to considering what you eventually setup, I made the choice to ditch windows on HTPCs (with the exception of my gaming HTPC) long ago to avoid the various additional requirements it takes to run smoothly like extra ram, extra ssd, keep a keyboard/mouse handy to close UAC prompts, etc. That's why I still have an unused license from a w7 3 pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihmos 147 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I have been using a Celeron 1.2ghz with windows for years and it isn't slow at all. Everything plays just fine and I am using WMC with Win 8.1. Video play back does not much CPU because of hardware acceleration such as Intel quick sync. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14910 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I would like to avoid an HTPC as much as possible (footprint, heat output/noise from fans, price, power usage) A NUC eliminates most of those issues you listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceboy 2493 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I would second windows on an nuc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidman 589 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) I would second windows on an nuc.I don't think anyone else has advocated windows on nuc yet;) Edited December 1, 2014 by Vidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14910 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I don't think anyone else has advocated windows on nuc yet;) I know I'm not anybody but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidman 589 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 You didn't mention windows though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihmos 147 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I would purchase a roku over an HTPC unless you want a device for Live TV. Mediabrowser works so good on the Roku and the device consumes just 3 watts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianW 1052 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) I'm using a NUC with Windows 8.1 and I have MBS and MBC installed on it. Works great. Plays everything natively including x265. Outputs everything from PCM up to DTS-MA to my receiver. I'm using MPC-HC (with MadVR) as an external player for MBC, configured to switch refresh rates to 24, 50 or 60 depending on content. Edited December 2, 2014 by AdrianW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWW 5 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Thanks for the suggestion guys, keep 'em coming. I have considered the NUC. And since on my personnal machine I'm using Windows 7 + WMC + MBC, it would be easy for me to configure. It's really a shame that a full blown HTPC is the only device capable of handling all formats. On that subject, couldn't we set up a chart with every format supported by each client? That could help us determine which device to acquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_slayer 103 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I have been using a Celeron 1.2ghz with windows for years and it isn't slow at all. Everything plays just fine and I am using WMC with Win 8.1. Video play back does not much CPU because of hardware acceleration such as Intel quick sync.What specific setup do you have? The previous to j1900 embedded celerons were 1037 and 830 and neither had enough EUs in their on die gpu to decode and render in windows without green banding and pixelation (macroblocking). When you have that issue with low power CPU/GPU chips then you can usually get around it by software decoding. This was trivial with OE since it's resource requirements were marginal outside of media payback, but many tried and failed to get these systems to perform well in windows. The step up desktop class celeron processors of course run windows and playback 1080p just fine since sandy bridge's minimum g550, though it was a general rule of thumb to run it with 4GB ram in windows where that would never crack above 30% utilization (even peak) in OE and hence the rule of thumb for OE is to not waste your money on more than 2GB as it'll never be touched Also the desktop celeron lines since sandy bridge have quicksync disabled, and quicksync can only aid in decoding which isnt the total workload requirement to begin with. They "silently" re enabled it on a small selection of celeron/pentium processors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14910 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 On that subject, couldn't we set up a chart with every format supported by each client? That could help us determine which device to acquire Sounds like a great idea for a community project. If six or seven knowledgeable folks contributed, this could be created in not much time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent 91 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I too had this requirement or one similar to it (Live TV, all formats, no transcoding) and settled on a Gygabit Brix (Celeron version, less than $150 + memory + SSD + Win7). It runs well with the exception that MBC menus are choppy, but playback is excellent for both Live TV (using WMC) and stored media (using MBC). If i had to build it again, I would go with a i3 version for a snappier interface. And yes it is a shame that there isn't a single, low cost device out there that plays all formats and can stream Live TV from a backend without transcoding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihmos 147 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) What specific setup do you have? The previous to j1900 embedded celerons were 1037 and 830 and neither had enough EUs in their on die gpu to decode and render in windows without green banding and pixelation (macroblocking). When you have that issue with low power CPU/GPU chips then you can usually get around it by software decoding. This was trivial with OE since it's resource requirements were marginal outside of media payback, but many tried and failed to get these systems to perform well in windows. The step up desktop class celeron processors of course run windows and playback 1080p just fine since sandy bridge's minimum g550, though it was a general rule of thumb to run it with 4GB ram in windows where that would never crack above 30% utilization (even peak) in OE and hence the rule of thumb for OE is to not waste your money on more than 2GB as it'll never be touched Also the desktop celeron lines since sandy bridge have quicksync disabled, and quicksync can only aid in decoding which isnt the total workload requirement to begin with. They "silently" re enabled it on a small selection of celeron/pentium processors Quicksync works with Gpus from sandy bridge and up. I have the Celeron 857 which is just 1.2Ghz. Quicksync works fine and I have no pixels. I can also playback fine without quicksync. I also have a Nuc for another television plus a couple Roku devices. Newegg had the Roku 3 on sale yesterday for $65 so I just bought another one. Edited December 2, 2014 by Deihmos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_slayer 103 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Quicksync works with Gpus from sandy bridge and up. I have the Celeron 857 which is just 1.2Ghz. Quicksync works fine and I have no pixels http://www.anandtech.com/show/4524/the-sandy-bridge-pentium-review-pentium-g850-g840-g620-g620t-tested Where the vanilla HD Graphics loses is in video features: Quick Sync, InTru 3D (Blu-ray 3D), Intel Insider (DRM support for web streaming of high bitrate HD video) and Clear Video HD (GPU accelerated post processing) are all gone. Thankfully you do still get hardware H.264 video acceleration and fully audio bitstreaming support (including TrueHD/DTS-HD MA). Missing Quick Sync is a major blow, although as I mentioned earlier I'm very disappointed in the poor support for the feature outside of the initial launch applications. The rest of the features vary in importance. To someone building a basic HTPC, a Sandy Bridge Pentium will do just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihmos 147 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Like I said I have been using the Celeron system for years with 0 playback issues. DXVA and Intel Quick Sync both work fine from either lav or ffdshow. With software decoding on 1080P video cpu use is about 25-50% depending but with intel quicksync it drops to 1-10%. I don't pay attention to all of the technical stuff. This intel employee designed quick sync found in lav and ffdshow. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=162442 Main features* HW decode using Intel's high performance QuickSync engine.* Decodes H264, MPEG2, VC-1, WMV9. DVD playback not supported.* HW deinterlacing -auto or forced, with half or full (50/60p) output rate* HW denoise and detail filters* Soft 3:2 pulldown on marked streams.* Support variable frame rate streams.* Support headless iGPU (Intel GPU disconnected from display) on Windows 8 and newer. Requirements:1. SandyBridge (2nd Generation Core i3/i5/i7/celeron/pentium) or newer. Older platforms will not work and no plans to support them. Edited December 4, 2014 by Deihmos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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