Are changes/updates to internal player coming?

[foghat 65]

Hi,

 

I know there is a version of MBT being worked on with significant user experience changes, but are there any changes being applied to the internal player?

 

I ask because right now I experience a very subtle (but still very annoying) stutter (or something) throughout a given movie or tv show.  It is not a constant thing, but it does happen many times through out a viewing.

 

I do not experience this using an external player (mpc or jriver).  Also, the internal player did not always do this - I don't remember which one but this started happening after an update (many months ago now).

 

I've tried playing with some of the different video settings, with no difference.  But honestly, I am flying blind when it comes to changing the various settings.

 

Would much rather be using the internal player and am hoping tweaks are coming that may resolve my issue.

Edited December 13, 2014 by foghat

[Xzener 729]

I also had the "stutter", mainly with rips. Whether it be BD or DVD, the issue was annoying to the point of not using MBT anymore. I recently updated MBT and discovered new setting I could experiment with. I have finally found the setting my HTPCs are happy with. No more stuttering. What is your PCs specs? Are you using onboard or video card graphics?

[foghat 65]

Using video card graphics.  PC cpu maybe hits 20% the odd time.  And, like I say, do not have this issue with external players.

 

I am pretty much exclusively bluray rips (though with video re-encoded) with hd audio.

 

I assume you are talking about new MBT settings?  What did you end up changing?

[byngo 6]

Try installing Madvr as your renderer. Use the default settings it comes with to start off and of course you need to select it as the renderer in MBT settings.

Worked for me with my mostly Mkv bluray and dvd rips.

If the default settings don't solve your problem or make it worse then the first thing to adjust would be the smooth motion.

This is a madvr feature but can be toggled on/off from within the mbt settings.

So 1st, turn it off in mbt.

Because smooth motion didn't work for me I then realised the alternative was frame rate switching. This means you need to turn it on in madvr and tell it which resolutions it can switch to such as 1080p 23hz, 1080p 50, 1080p 60hz. You will them see your screen resolution changes from your default desktop setting to 1080p 50 or 24hz (for 23.997 bluray profile). Depends of course on the content you have chosen to watch.

Assuming your TV can handle that. No point setting a resolution your TV doesn't do. So I made a few assumptions in my post.

Edited December 16, 2014 by byngo

[foghat 65]

Try installing Madvr as your renderer. Use the default settings it comes with to start off and of course you need to select it as the renderer in MBT settings.

Worked for me with my mostly Mkv bluray and dvd rips.

If the default settings don't solve your problem or make it worse then the first thing to adjust would be the smooth motion.

This is a madvr feature but can be toggled on/off from within the mbt settings.

So 1st, turn it off in mbt.

Because smooth motion didn't work for me I then realised the alternative was frame rate switching. This means you need to turn it on in madvr and tell it which resolutions it can switch to such as 1080p 23hz, 1080p 50, 1080p 60hz. You will them see your screen resolution changes from your default desktop setting to 1080p 50 or 24hz (for 23.997 bluray profile). Depends of course on the content you have chosen to watch.

Assuming your TV can handle that. No point setting a resolution your TV doesn't do. So I made a few assumptions in my post.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I thought the standalone version of madVR did not affect anything within MB as MB installs its own version?  This said, I need to check when I get home - I have a feeling the video renderer might be set to EVR.  So maybe just changing to madVR will improve things.

[byngo 6]

Thanks for the info.

 

I thought the standalone version of madVR did not affect anything within MB as MB installs its own version?  This said, I need to check when I get home - I have a feeling the video renderer might be set to EVR.  So maybe just changing to madVR will improve things.

 

You made the same assumptions as me about MadVR when I first started with MBT because the configuration option is there, you thought it was installed as a package right?

Wrong, you have to install MadVR if you want to exercise the use of the options in MBT. (installation means simply extracting the zip to some where you fancy but a good idea is to make it C:\program files\madvr. if you delete that folder, MAdVR is gone again. Simpes.

 

Yeah, I found I was making changes in Madvr config (look up a user guide) but there were a limited number of pre-configured settings in MBT. So, check what options you have for MadVR in the MBT config and remember to change those from within MBT otherwise those specific options get over-written, despite what you change in MadVR itself.

As I remember it, smooth motion seemed ok with Bluray but I had judder on DVD plus I didn't like the shadow effect some times given by the smooth motion setting.

For me, matching the display resolution with the source framerate was the answer. Hence, you would then not require smooth motion to be enabled.

Leave the more complex settings in MadVR alone until you get the judder sorted and if you do fix it, you can move onto image quality settings after but if your demand on your GFX card gets too high then you will throw in skipped frames / judder again so then you ease back on quality settings.

Note, you will always have Madvr telling you there were skipped frames at the start of a video and when skipping fwd but when you have got it right, the numbers will be steady all the way through.

[foghat 65]

thx.  will give things a try.  strange the movies play fine in jriver and mpc-hc

[byngo 6]

Guess you could always call mpc-hc as an external player from the mbt settings but getting the internal player working nice is just a simpler/better user experience I think.

[foghat 65]

Guess you could always call mpc-hc as an external player from the mbt settings but getting the internal player working nice is just a simpler/better user experience I think.

 

Ya, I am currently calling jriver and have it working great.  But you just lose some things with the external player: proper marking of watched status based on settings on server, launching to a certain chapter, seamless start/stop, cinema mode, etc.

Edited December 16, 2014 by foghat

[foghat 65]

You made the same assumptions as me about MadVR when I first started with MBT because the configuration option is there, you thought it was installed as a package right?

Wrong, you have to install MadVR if you want to exercise the use of the options in MBT. (installation means simply extracting the zip to some where you fancy but a good idea is to make it C:\program files\madvr. if you delete that folder, MAdVR is gone again. Simpes.

 

Yeah, I found I was making changes in Madvr config (look up a user guide) but there were a limited number of pre-configured settings in MBT. So, check what options you have for MadVR in the MBT config and remember to change those from within MBT otherwise those specific options get over-written, despite what you change in MadVR itself.

As I remember it, smooth motion seemed ok with Bluray but I had judder on DVD plus I didn't like the shadow effect some times given by the smooth motion setting.

For me, matching the display resolution with the source framerate was the answer. Hence, you would then not require smooth motion to be enabled.

Leave the more complex settings in MadVR alone until you get the judder sorted and if you do fix it, you can move onto image quality settings after but if your demand on your GFX card gets too high then you will throw in skipped frames / judder again so then you ease back on quality settings.

Note, you will always have Madvr telling you there were skipped frames at the start of a video and when skipping fwd but when you have got it right, the numbers will be steady all the way through.

 

Do you mean you checked off the 'change refresh rate to match video' option in MBT?  Or was this something you set in madvr?

 

I 'installed' madvr and I think things were better - but perhaps still off a bit.  I actually did not have smooth motion enabled.  Will try it with it enabled next.

 

I did not see a frame rate switching option in madvr - where did you go to tell which resolution with what refresh rate?

 

When you say madvr will always tell you there there skipped frames at the start, what do you mean?  Can you view some sort of log file after the fact?

 

Thanks.

Edited December 17, 2014 by foghat

[byngo 6]

Don't check "change refresh rate to match video" in MBT. I wanted to let MadVR do that. The same option in MadVR config is under devices. Initially you will need to confirm with MadVR what your display device is, don't bother with the display calibration option.

After the calibration option in the tree is "display modes".

Tick "switch to matching display mode" (when playback starts) and the "restore original display mode" (when media player is closed)

further down you will see a field where you can enter the display modes that MadVR can switch to. Mine is entered exactly as below: -

1080p23, 1080p50, 1080p60

 

To see the statistics (overlay) from Madvr you need to be playing a video and then press "ctrl J" and it will appear on screen. you can toggle it on / off with the same key combination and if you want ctrl R will reset the counters to zero again (dropped frames / skipped frames / presentation glitches)

 

Smooth Motion is an option within madVR but can also be pre-configured from MBT by going into "configure renderer setting". if you want it on you can do so via the MBT setting or Madvr but MBT setting will override what you check in Madvr, therefore my advice is once you have madvr chosen as your renderer in MBT, leave all your settings adjusted from within MadVR, that saves any confusion about what is set where.

 

to get into MadVR configuration you need to start playing a video but not full screen so you can see the task bar, then find MadVR in the task bar, right click and choose to configure MadVR settings.

 

Hope that helps you.

 

P.S if you try smooth motion, un-check the "switch to matching display mode". The two wont be any benefit together and will most likely make matters worse. (and deletion of MadVR is via the uninstall.bat file in the installation folder, not just deleting the folder as I stated previously)

 

P.P.S Ive never used JRiver but I did find a useful guide (wiki) from them for MadVR.

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/MadVR_Expert_Guide

Edited December 17, 2014 by byngo

[foghat 65]

Don't check "change refresh rate to match video" in MBT. I wanted to let MadVR do that. The same option in MadVR config is under devices. Initially you will need to confirm with MadVR what your display device is, don't bother with the display calibration option.

After the calibration option in the tree is "display modes".

Tick "switch to matching display mode" (when playback starts) and the "restore original display mode" (when media player is closed)

further down you will see a field where you can enter the display modes that MadVR can switch to. Mine is entered exactly as below: -

1080p23, 1080p50, 1080p60

 

To see the statistics (overlay) from Madvr you need to be playing a video and then press "ctrl J" and it will appear on screen. you can toggle it on / off with the same key combination and if you want ctrl R will reset the counters to zero again (dropped frames / skipped frames / presentation glitches)

 

Smooth Motion is an option within madVR but can also be pre-configured from MBT by going into "configure renderer setting". if you want it on you can do so via the MBT setting or Madvr but MBT setting will override what you check in Madvr, therefore my advice is once you have madvr chosen as your renderer in MBT, leave all your settings adjusted from within MadVR, that saves any confusion about what is set where.

 

to get into MadVR configuration you need to start playing a video but not full screen so you can see the task bar, then find MadVR in the task bar, right click and choose to configure MadVR settings.

 

Hope that helps you.

 

P.S if you try smooth motion, un-check the "switch to matching display mode". The two wont be any benefit together and will most likely make matters worse. (and deletion of MadVR is via the uninstall.bat file in the installation folder, not just deleting the folder as I stated previously)

 

P.P.S Ive never used JRiver but I did find a useful guide (wiki) from them for MadVR.

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/MadVR_Expert_Guide

 

Thanks for all the great info.

 

One more silly question: do you know if there there is an easy way to tell what display modes your device supports?  I have an epson 1080ub projector.  I can't find anything in the manual.  I have seen references (in reviews) to it supporting 1080/24 and 1080/60, but have not been able to find a definitive list.

 

Thanks.

[byngo 6]

Hi, User manual would have been the best guess but you tried that. Sounds like you might have found enough info from user experiences on the web reviews anyway.

I would enter the same display modes as I did. **include 1080p23 because that's how to specify you want 23.997 hz for bluray rips from windows OS and graphics driver, its not 24 as you might have expected so you wont need that.

Not sure where you are in this world but you're either going to need 1080p60 or 1080p50. 60 suits standard NTSC video whereas 50hz suits standard PAL video. Safe bet is just include both and MadVr will choose which it needs for the detected source format.

[foghat 65]

Okay thanks.  I think first I will try the MBT built in function for this and if that doesn't work look at doing it externally with madVR.

[foghat 65]

Actually I set up the madvr for the display resolution.  My movies are pretty much all 1080p, but most of my tv shows are 720p.  23.976fps.  I guess I should add a 720p23 to madvr as well?

 

and 480p30 (29.970fps) for the few dvds I have?

Edited December 18, 2014 by foghat

[byngo 6]

All my resolutions are 1080 as it is the native resolution of the tv. If I provide it with a lesser resolution it still has to scale to make use of all the pixels. There's nothing else it can do. If your native res is 1080 then go with that.

[foghat 65]

Super.  Thanks.

[foghat 65]

All my resolutions are 1080 as it is the native resolution of the tv. If I provide it with a lesser resolution it still has to scale to make use of all the pixels. There's nothing else it can do. If your native res is 1080 then go with that.

 

So, I just finished watching my first movie after setting this up.  Worked great.  Thanks for your help.

 

No stutter, no judder, nothing.  Said 0 dropped frames after starting the movie (had like 44 dropped at start up).  Got 7 repeated frames.  Not sure what that is about or how to try bring that down to zero (I did pause the movie once, not sure if that could have caused it).  It was saying a frame would repeat about every 5 hours.

[byngo 6]

Well done. Glad I could help.

[jkuch77 0]

Don't check "change refresh rate to match video" in MBT. I wanted to let MadVR do that. The same option in MadVR config is under devices. Initially you will need to confirm with MadVR what your display device is, don't bother with the display calibration option.

After the calibration option in the tree is "display modes".

Tick "switch to matching display mode" (when playback starts) and the "restore original display mode" (when media player is closed)

further down you will see a field where you can enter the display modes that MadVR can switch to. Mine is entered exactly as below: -

1080p23, 1080p50, 1080p60

 

To see the statistics (overlay) from Madvr you need to be playing a video and then press "ctrl J" and it will appear on screen. you can toggle it on / off with the same key combination and if you want ctrl R will reset the counters to zero again (dropped frames / skipped frames / presentation glitches)

 

Smooth Motion is an option within madVR but can also be pre-configured from MBT by going into "configure renderer setting". if you want it on you can do so via the MBT setting or Madvr but MBT setting will override what you check in Madvr, therefore my advice is once you have madvr chosen as your renderer in MBT, leave all your settings adjusted from within MadVR, that saves any confusion about what is set where.

 

to get into MadVR configuration you need to start playing a video but not full screen so you can see the task bar, then find MadVR in the task bar, right click and choose to configure MadVR settings.

 

Hope that helps you.

 

P.S if you try smooth motion, un-check the "switch to matching display mode". The two wont be any benefit together and will most likely make matters worse. (and deletion of MadVR is via the uninstall.bat file in the installation folder, not just deleting the folder as I stated previously)

 

P.P.S Ive never used JRiver but I did find a useful guide (wiki) from them for MadVR.

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/MadVR_Expert_Guide

 

I tried using madVR to change refresh rate and it does change the refresh rate on my TV, but right after the refresh rate change, the video plays behind the MBT UI window and MBT goes into not responding and I have to force close MBT from task manager.  You guys don't have this issue?

[foghat 65]

I tried using madVR to change refresh rate and it does change the refresh rate on my TV, but right after the refresh rate change, the video plays behind the MBT UI window and MBT goes into not responding and I have to force close MBT from task manager.  You guys don't have this issue?

 

I don't. 

 

As aside though (I doubt it is related),  with the latest version of MBT, sometimes when I stop a movie, the screen goes black and MBT freezes without going back to the details screen. Though I am able to close mbt (close button mapped to remote) and do not have to use task manager.

[jkuch77 0]

I don't. 

 

As aside though (I doubt it is related),  with the latest version of MBT, sometimes when I stop a movie, the screen goes black and MBT freezes without going back to the details screen. Though I am able to close mbt (close button mapped to remote) and do not have to use task manager.

 

Can you post any screenshots of your madVR settings?  I was messing with other madVR settings and maybe something else I set is causing the mediabrowser IU to stop responding.  I have a button on my remote mapped to Alt+F4 to close apps also, but that doesn't work in my situation, I still need to use task manager to close it.  What graphics card do you use?  I have NVIDIA GT 640 card.  I have an AMD r7 240 card that should be arriving tomorrow and was going to try that because I read in other forums that AMD handles 1080p23 better than NVIDIA cards do.  Thank you for your help

 

 

EDIT:  It looks like I found the issue.  MBT freezes and stops responding when you try to change the resolution ie. from 1080p to 720p.  With my NVIDIA card, my resolution was slightly under 1920x1080 because of overscan adjustment and when madVR was changing the refresh rate it was also changing resolution to 1920x1080.  I just got my new AMD card and I like it much better as far as setting resolutions and scaling for overscan.  The CCC is much better than the NVIDIA control panel was.  Everything is working good now.

Edited January 4, 2015 by jkuch77

[foghat 65]

Can you post any screenshots of your madVR settings?  I was messing with other madVR settings and maybe something else I set is causing the mediabrowser IU to stop responding.  I have a button on my remote mapped to Alt+F4 to close apps also, but that doesn't work in my situation, I still need to use task manager to close it.  What graphics card do you use?  I have NVIDIA GT 640 card.  I have an AMD r7 240 card that should be arriving tomorrow and was going to try that because I read in other forums that AMD handles 1080p23 better than NVIDIA cards do.  Thank you for your help

 

 

EDIT:  It looks like I found the issue.  MBT freezes and stops responding when you try to change the resolution ie. from 1080p to 720p.  With my NVIDIA card, my resolution was slightly under 1920x1080 because of overscan adjustment and when madVR was changing the refresh rate it was also changing resolution to 1920x1080.  I just got my new AMD card and I like it much better as far as setting resolutions and scaling for overscan.  The CCC is much better than the NVIDIA control panel was.  Everything is working good now.

Good stuff. I am using an old ati radeon 5700. Has been working great for me for years now.

[byngo 6]

Must be some kind of "fullscreen overlay" / "keep video on top" setting either in MBT or probably MadVR. Sorry I cant be more specific, im a user of MBT and MAdVr but still gaining knowledge myself. Im sure you're close and just got to find and change the right settings option.

Apologies for the slow response.

[byngo 6]

Must be some kind of "fullscreen overlay" / "keep video on top" setting either in MBT or probably MadVR. Sorry I cant be more specific, im a user of MBT and MAdVr but still gaining knowledge myself. Im sure you're close and just got to find and change the right settings option.

Apologies for the slow response.

Sorry. Just read though your posts and realised you got it sussed out.

Assuming your display can do 1920 x 1080 properly you shouldn't need overscan.

For bluray you should choose 1080p 23hz in CCC with no overscan. Also go ahead and choose another resolution like 1080p 60hz and or 50hz and check / set those to zero overscan aswell. Then if you have a program like madvr changing resolutions to suit the source video it will change correctly.

Oh and before you do any of the above if it's a TV you want "just scan mode" or exact scan or whatever your TV calls it.

What I mean is not using one of the zoomed, wide or 16:9 settings. You just want the tv to display what it is sent by the graphics driver.