kougei 5 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Hi, I've been putting a mixture of DVD and Blu-Ray on the Mediabrowser server (Windows 2012 foundation), enabled shares and added folder paths. DVD and Blu-Ray have been converted movie-only lossless. Network is wired. Running HP N40L Microserver, server is simply a file-sharer with NAS storage. When I playback on my HTPC via Mediabrowser Classic, playback of 1080p mkv is fine, apart from I do see a softer, flatter quality difference against playback via my Pioneer Blu-Ray Disc, and can't get it to switch to play at 24Hz. So preference would be to use DLNA via the Blu-Ray player. But here I get stuttering playback, unless I pause for awhile, then playback is smooth, until it seems it needs to buffer again, stutters, but can then I pause awhile and play fine awhile. The PQ is perfect, and 24Hz playback though. I also have an Amazon Fire TV, and I get exactly the same stuttering playback there as well. So in researching, I'm guessing 1 or 2 things could be happening:- 1. Playback is Transcoding on all but the HTPC, and the HP Microserver isn't up to it, as the devices can't directly access files via mapped shares. 2. The 'devices' have 'slower' Ethernet, and can't support the 'stream rate' required to playback 1080p mkv. In all scenarios, DVD playback is fine, no stuttering. But I'm having trouble on how to troubleshoot next steps, e.g. I read that server dashboard should alert you to if transposing is being done during playback, but whilst I see the device playback tiles, it doesn't mention transcoding. Any advice on better or next things to look at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelblue05 4130 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Are your library media folders set using UNC path, or do you use path substitution? Maybe you can try a 720p mkv, to see if you get a better result. As for the dashboard playback tiles, you need to mouse over the tile to see if the content is transcoding Regular path: Strong chance content will transcode D:\Media UNC path: http://mediabrowser.tv/community/index.php?/topic/703-how-to-make-unc-folder-shares/ \\Computer\Media Path substitution: use computer name or the internal ip From D:\Media To \\192.xxx.xxx.xx\Media Edited January 30, 2015 by Angelblue05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kougei 5 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) I have several shares of a variation:- E:\Shares\MEDIA\Videos\Movies...TV Shows... Music Videos... I have setup Path substitution:- E:\Shares\MEDIA\ to \\kougei-server\media\ I assumed this partial path would reflect all the sub-folder paths rather than add a Path for each. Should I also add one using the server IP address as well? Edited January 30, 2015 by kougei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kougei 5 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 So discovered my Xbox One now has a Media Player App supporting DNLA. But same problem, finds Media Browser available, but mkv playback from Blu-Ray stutters, exactly as per Blu-Ray Player and FireTV. But when I look at server dashboard, none of these devices showup as currently accessing Media-Browser, even though they are currently playing back files via DLNA. I've also added IP Address as Path Substitution as well as server name, but makes no difference. So on the htpc running Win8.1 I just purchased the Media Browser App. This has the stuttering issue, but shows up on Server dashboard as 'Transcoding'. But when I run Media Browser Classic on the same htpc, no stuttering, and shows up on Server dashboard as 'Direct Playing'. Any further ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 36990 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Please see http://mediabrowser.tv/community/index.php?/topic/790-how-to-report-a-problem/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathsquirrel 741 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 In my experience the windows 8.1 app and the xbox one through DLNA play-to both stutter on high bit rate files, particularly with high rate audio. I haven't even looked at that in months but if you need extra logs of the issue I'm happy to help. It typically happens every 5-15 minutes for me with a wired network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyFr79 228 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Sounds to me like a combination of a few things. Most CE (consumer electronic) devices that support streaming MKV's for instance have a very strict encoding they look for when it comes to h.264 video. It's usually the most basic of profiles/settings. Since most MKV's that are h.264 are encoded with better settings these devices have a hard time playing them back if they even will start playback in the first place. Also because of this it most likely is transcoding and with the limited hardware of your server is probably choking on the transcode (hence why you can pause it and it'll play fine for a while since you're letting the server "catch up" in it's transcoding) If you're using an HTPC with MB Classic you should have no problem playing back at 24 hz. In most cases you have to manually change the refresh rate on your computer (right click desktop/graphics properties/etc) I use a utility called refresh rate changer that installs a plugin into Windows Media Center that allows you to setup resolution/refresh profiles that you can easily switch between in Media Center via remote. It's still a manual change but much more convenient that going to your desktop etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kougei 5 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Sounds to me like a combination of a few things. Most CE (consumer electronic) devices that support streaming MKV's for instance have a very strict encoding they look for when it comes to h.264 video. It's usually the most basic of profiles/settings. Since most MKV's that are h.264 are encoded with better settings these devices have a hard time playing them back if they even will start playback in the first place. Also because of this it most likely is transcoding and with the limited hardware of your server is probably choking on the transcode (hence why you can pause it and it'll play fine for a while since you're letting the server "catch up" in it's transcoding) If you're using an HTPC with MB Classic you should have no problem playing back at 24 hz. In most cases you have to manually change the refresh rate on your computer (right click desktop/graphics properties/etc) I use a utility called refresh rate changer that installs a plugin into Windows Media Center that allows you to setup resolution/refresh profiles that you can easily switch between in Media Center via remote. It's still a manual change but much more convenient that going to your desktop etc. Thanks for the reply. Yes, I think everything is transcoding apart from when I use MB Classic from Windows MCE. I had read about 'refresh rate changer' but the AU forums it originated from are no more, so there's no way to get that add-on freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBers 6766 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Not sure the MicroServer is man enough to do transcoding. What is your transcoding option set to? Does DLNA transcode or direct play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kougei 5 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Please see http://mediabrowser.tv/community/index.php?/topic/790-how-to-report-a-problem/ OK , so I have enabled DLNA debugging. I have tested playing back a file using MB Classic, with no issues. When I try playback using the MB Windows8 App I get transcoding, and therefore stuttering. Server version is:- 3.0.5490.2 MB Classic version is:- 3.0.243 MB Win8 App is:- No version - current in-store Attached server log and transcoding log server-63558259743.txt transcode-02b9b6ad-e304-4e06-8c5f-f7e4f0df50b5.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14897 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Yeah, your server cannot handle that transcode. Only getting about 10fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyFr79 228 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Thanks for the reply. Yes, I think everything is transcoding apart from when I use MB Classic from Windows MCE. I had read about 'refresh rate changer' but the AU forums it originated from are no more, so there's no way to get that add-on freely. PM'd you a link to the file. Enjoy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kougei 5 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 PM'd you a link to the file. Enjoy Great, many thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kougei 5 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Yeah, your server cannot handle that transcode. Only getting about 10fps. OK, but I wasn't expecting the server to have to do any transcoding, by sharing the folders and setting up folder paths. This seems to work fine for MB Classic, whereas the Win8 App on the same HTPC host stutters from transcoding it seems. Whilst I'm happyish with the MB Classic as it stands, there is the 24Hz playback workaround required, and I find the PQ slightly soft. My Pioneer BDP-LX55 player has been professional calibrated with my screens, so the PQ playback on that device is exceptional, and would be my preference, with Auto 24Hz, if not for the stuttering. I'm also keen to see if the XBoxOne can be used without the stuttering playback issues, as most of my viewing goes through that now, main TV, Amazon, Netflix, etc. So the question remains why MBC has no issues Direct Playing from the server, but everything else is resulting in transcoding occurring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBers 6766 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 So the question remains why MBC has no issues Direct Playing from the server, but everything else is resulting in transcoding occurring? Unless your clients can play the files natively, then transcoding will be required, and it looks like your server isn't man enough to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kougei 5 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Unless your clients can play the files natively, then transcoding will be required, and it looks like your server isn't man enough to do that. As I'd ripped the BD lossless into MKV and both PioBD and XB1 support mkv, I wasn't expecting issues there. I guess I can test putting an mkv on a USB and test local disc playback, and see if there are issues then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution JeremyFr79 228 Posted January 31, 2015 Solution Share Posted January 31, 2015 OK, but I wasn't expecting the server to have to do any transcoding, by sharing the folders and setting up folder paths. This seems to work fine for MB Classic, whereas the Win8 App on the same HTPC host stutters from transcoding it seems. Whilst I'm happyish with the MB Classic as it stands, there is the 24Hz playback workaround required, and I find the PQ slightly soft. My Pioneer BDP-LX55 player has been professional calibrated with my screens, so the PQ playback on that device is exceptional, and would be my preference, with Auto 24Hz, if not for the stuttering. I'm also keen to see if the XBoxOne can be used without the stuttering playback issues, as most of my viewing goes through that now, main TV, Amazon, Netflix, etc. So the question remains why MBC has no issues Direct Playing from the server, but everything else is resulting in transcoding occurring? See my above response...Most CE devices like BR Players, Amazon FireTV etc, have very limited playback capabilities when it comes to codecs in MKV file. Most will only playback H.264 or MP4 for video with basic profiles/settings and the majority will also only playback AAC,PCM, or standard AC3 audio, anything outside of these limitations will be transcoded to work correctly with the CE device you're using for playback. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kougei 5 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 See my above response...Most CE devices like BR Players, Amazon FireTV etc, have very limited playback capabilities when it comes to codecs in MKV file. Most will only playback H.264 or MP4 for video with basic profiles/settings and the majority will also only playback AAC,PCM, or standard AC3 audio, anything outside of these limitations will be transcoded to work correctly with the CE device you're using for playback. That's bad news, as I embarked on this with intent of digitising my media with no quality loss, to a server, enabling playback from any room or device, but looks like there are limitations. Looking at the BDP spec, it does say mkv playback supports max 1280x720 res, and this holds true for the latest top-spec Pioneer model as well. I can live with that, as no doubt that'll be replaced with a 4k model in around 12 months. Would still like to investigate more on the XB1 and FireTV side though. If I need to rely on transcoding I can get a new HP microserver G8 for net £140, which has dual Celeron 2.30 GHz, instead of the AMD Neo 1.50 GHz, is this too little an upgrade do you think? I was considering this anyway as part of this project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBers 6766 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 If I need to rely on transcoding I can get a new HP microserver G8 for net £140, which has dual Celeron 2.30 GHz, instead of the AMD Neo 1.50 GHz, is this too little an upgrade do you think? I was considering this anyway as part of this project. A very good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14897 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 That doesn't sound like much of an upgrade to me but I have no real evidence to back that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kougei 5 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 That doesn't sound like much of an upgrade to me but I have no real evidence to back that up. Potentially double the CPU power between Turion N40L and Celeron G1610T in some real-world benchmarks The HP G8 is a steal at the price, as was my current N40L at the time. But the slightest upgrade on CPU or looking at an alternative server build, more than doubles the outlay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14897 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Potentially double the CPU power between Turion N40L and Celeron G1610T in some real-world benchmarks Assuming a linear relationship on power (which is probably not a good assumption but still) you would then move up to transcoding 20fps - still not enough for direct video. Like I said, probably not a valid assumption but my gut just says that isn't going to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyFr79 228 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I would tend to agree with EBR in respects to the "upgrade" Luckily where I live I can attain 2nd hand enterprise grade servers for dirt cheap, so I have a few fairly nice, fairly powerful rackmount servers running my setup. But then again my setup isn't anything to be considered "typical" lol Edited January 31, 2015 by JeremyFr79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathsquirrel 741 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 That's bad news, as I embarked on this with intent of digitising my media with no quality loss, to a server, enabling playback from any room or device, but looks like there are limitations. Looking at the BDP spec, it does say mkv playback supports max 1280x720 res, and this holds true for the latest top-spec Pioneer model as well. I can live with that, as no doubt that'll be replaced with a 4k model in around 12 months. Would still like to investigate more on the XB1 and FireTV side though. If I need to rely on transcoding I can get a new HP microserver G8 for net £140, which has dual Celeron 2.30 GHz, instead of the AMD Neo 1.50 GHz, is this too little an upgrade do you think? I was considering this anyway as part of this project. Xbox One definitely cant handle direct mkv rips without transcoding. It will require transcoding of the hd audio which it only supports in the bluray player from what i can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kougei 5 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 I would tend to agree with EBR in respects to the "upgrade" Luckily where I live I can attain 2nd hand enterprise grade servers for dirt cheap, so I have a few fairly nice, fairly powerful rackmount servers running my setup. But then again my setup isn't anything to be considered "typical" lol I've also found a deal on a Lenovo Thinkserver TS140 bundled with Win2012 Essentials for just over £300 net of fastback offer, such a good deal considering Quad-Core Zeon 3.x GHz processor, 4mb Ram and, and full Server Essentials. Food for thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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