Swynol 375 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Wondering if anyone uses ESXI? i was planning on giving it a go on my server, so ESXI installed then having 3 VMs, one VM will be the main server with my storage and running MB server and a few other apps. then the second VM will be my HTPC so will use the GPU. third VM for testing keeping them all separate means i can work on the HTPC will not effecting the server is the family is watching something on it. do you think this will work? any special hardware needed? current hardware i3 8GB ram 10TB storage 6570 GPU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantaxp7 190 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I've used esxi for a windows vm dedicated to mb-server and another vm for freenas. I have not used a vm for a HTPC. I did however attempt to passthrough my old Ceton tuner to the windows vm but had all sorts of issues that I believe to be related to video drivers. So I don't know how much success you will have there. I think it would be interesting to try a vm for the HTPC though...it may work if you passthrough a video card...also you'd need the correct hardware to do passthrough with esxi and that can be tricky to identify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynol 375 Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 thanks fantaxp7. going to give it a go tonight, never installed esxi on a 'desktop pc' before always been on servers. i think i need to up the ram to 16gb and possibly go i5 or higher to achieve what i want, MB server can use alot of ram and cpu when transcoding plus i use madvr which can be pretty intensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantaxp7 190 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 thanks fantaxp7. going to give it a go tonight, never installed esxi on a 'desktop pc' before always been on servers. i think i need to up the ram to 16gb and possibly go i5 or higher to achieve what i want, MB server can use alot of ram and cpu when transcoding plus i use madvr which can be pretty intensive. Yea I have an i5, I prefer to have 32gb in mine now, the zfs raid likes ram. I actually only have 2cpus and 4gb ram dedicated to the mb server and it works well. I haven't monitored cpu percent while streaming to multiple devices or mobile devices that would require transcoding, but overall for my main HTPC's in my house it works really well. Now if you are going to go with madvr you most definitely should look in to making sure you can pass through that video card...and even then it may not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobear 0 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Curiious about your results with this. I know ESXi has a compatability list, and whenever I have installed it in the past, I have always installed it on Workstations that share the same motherboard as server components. One example of this is an HP xw8400 workstation, which is a dual Xeon socket system with support for up to 8 cores (2 x 4 core Xeon), and up to 32GB of ECC RAM. This is the same motherboard as their G5 series servers, so ESXi likes it alot. Plus, the free version of ESXi limits you to two CPU sockets and 32GB of RAM, so this is kinda the sweet spot right now, IMHO. I also have thought of setting up a MB3 server as a VM guest, but not sure about the benefits, or adding complexity when thinking about passing through storage controllers to the guest machines. If I did that, however, I would also setup a seperate physical server for FreeNAS so I could use iSCSI targets for the VM host to provide storage for the guests. So that would probably get rid of the storage controller limitation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynol 375 Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 well my tests didnt go quite to plan. my first test rig didnt support VT natively so i couldnt pass through my gfx card to a guest OS. i then got a second test rig i3 2120 with 16GB ram, split 8gb ram for server and 8gb ram for htpc. it sort of worked but was flaky, i think the cpu just want up to the job. and the gfx ard pass-through worked sometimes but after a reboot dissapeared, then would come back etc. so i binned the idea and just installed win7 and run my server and htpc off it. maybe i will revisit it one day when i upgrade to a decent i5 or i7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxeMan 22 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I have MB server working fine on ESXI 5.5, but running HTPC on a VM isn't that great. I tried under 5.0 with abysmal results (not MB , just wmc was crappy) This was on an i7 960 with a Radeon 5760 ir a 5770 - I don't really remember. Keeping the server on VM, I do see CPU spikes when streaming to Android. Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moviefan 184 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 How do you run HTPC in a VM on ESXi? ESXi just shows you a basic config screen and a URL to the vSphere GUI.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynol 375 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 you can pass through the graphics card to a VM. so my plan was to have 3 VMs on ESXi 1. Windows 7 x64 as a server with MB server installed 2. Windows 7 x64 as a HTPC with MBT installed - this machine will have the graphics card and a USB IR passed to it 3. Windows 7 x64 test machine for random work. Graphics card pass through only works on some motherboards and even then can be flaky. I had issue with my old motherboard so i abandoned the idea. However my new mobo is much newer and has better support for ESXi so i may re visit it one day when i get a bigger SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainsheppard 5 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Nice article, I am running HyperV as its meant to be nicer with passing stuff through. I only have 16Gb of RAM shared across multiple VM's one being ZFS and it isnt that bad. but would be keen to see how gfx passthrough works under hyperv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynol 375 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) just replied to your thread ZFS shares use alot of RAM i think i read 1TB of storage to 1GB ram. But then again ZFS if used correctly are great. i might give HyperV a go one day to compare it to ESXi. Let me know how you get on with the passthrough. EDIT: one issue i remembered when looking at HyperV is that it can only be managed from a Windows 8 or Windows Server 2012 machine. I'm not keen on windows 8 which was one of the decisions to go down ESXi route. Edited March 19, 2014 by Crazypete00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnyhunter 5 Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 any recommendation for vram and vcpu settings of the mediaborowser server on a windows 2012 R2 server? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeMac 17 Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 This question needs more info... not sure of your config. My HTPC is Win7 Pro as a HOST with 10gb of ram (but 7.5GB or so is dedicated to other vms running on it.)...so 2.5gb of ram is for Win7 and MB Server. (MB Server runs directly on the HOST). I have a 2102 R2 vm with 1gb of ram, but its only for testing and backups. CPU is a very different story because of transcoding. It REALLY depends on your usage scenario... if you have clients that will be transcoding, then you need all the CPU you can get. If u have clients like the xbmb3c, then transcoding may not be much of an issue. Recommendation: Minimal ram - like 3gb, maximum cpu - If you have a core i7. Buy/Start as high as you can afford and test. If it works, reduce until it doesnt work.. Build your machine to last at least 3-4 years, with the ability to handle new stuff down the pipeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnyhunter 5 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 okay ;-) My server: 2 x 6 Core Xeon CPU 2,4GHz with hyperthreading 48 GB RAM As you can see I can address a lot of vRAM and vCPU power to the windows 2012 R2 server which is running mediabrowser server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syggy 1 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I have also installed MB Server on a Win 2008 VM on a 5.1. ESXi environment. Server works flawlessly, transcoding for one client (usually iPad) works also fine even with the slow dual core i3 i'm using. virtualizing the HTPC is useless today - VMware simply isn't designed for doing such things. There are hacks and workarounds to get it sort of working, but nothing you would want to use everyday. And you still have to place your ESX server near the TV to connect it via DVI/HDMI and also for the peripherals. Using a small HTPC only for displaying the media and nothing else is the better choice right now by a mile. The funny thing is that the ESXi doesn't need much CPU power at all during normal operation, even with 6-7 VMs running. The only tool that may use more CPU is MB Server during transcoding. Using this as a design foundation I have opted for the energy saving but slower dual core Core i3 CPU, 32GB RAM and a compatible mainboard + Intel Gbit NIC. The whole ESXi did cost me less then 500€ and runs like a charm using only a few Watts of power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeMac 17 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 okay ;-) My server: 2 x 6 Core Xeon CPU 2,4GHz with hyperthreading 48 GB RAM As you can see I can address a lot of vRAM and vCPU power to the windows 2012 R2 server which is running mediabrowser server. Personally, not sure if ram helps much... I only need 2.5 GB dedicated to wmc and media browser. CPU is the true issue when transcoding. I suggest at least 2 vcpu (and thats without transcodeing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeMac 17 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 virtualizing the HTPC is useless today - VMware simply isn't designed for doing such things. There are hacks and workarounds to get it sort of working, but nothing you would want to use everyday. And you still have to place your ESX server near the TV to connect it via DVI/HDMI and also for the peripherals. Using a small HTPC only for displaying the media and nothing else is the better choice right now by a mile I agree and disagree. The htpc should not be virtualized... (For now)... But I do use virtualization on my htpc everyday because I knew I wanted 1 machine to do the work of many - just like what you guys want. I just go about it differently than what is usually being asked about in these forums. I considered free esxi and vt-d with videocard passthru but it was too risky, and I really didn't want a video card sucking more power so I use my i7s HD video with hdmi, win7 and virtual software. If I was using win8, I would be using native hyperv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRA 39 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 With the right hardware htpc works fine in esxi. Been using it for 2 years. ATI hdmi audio and video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeMac 17 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 With the right hardware htpc works fine in esxi. Been using it for 2 years. ATI hdmi audio and video. I too have heard vt-d works better with ati. But.... Do you use a remote? How do you see the vmware console screen if there's a problem without a second video card? What about a tv tuner / cablecard? Yes , a whs acting as a htpc can be considered a htpc - but its not a complete htpc. There are many levels/items to consider and explain. @@KRA, perhaps you can expand more on your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnyhunter 5 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 so 16 vcpu's is a liitle bit overflow will go down to 8vcpus and 4 GB RAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantaxp7 190 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I too have heard vt-d works better with ati. But.... Do you use a remote? How do you see the vmware console screen if there's a problem without a second video card? What about a tv tuner / cablecard? Yes , a whs acting as a htpc can be considered a htpc - but its not a complete htpc. There are many levels/items to consider and explain. @@KRA, perhaps you can expand more on your answer. If he needs remote then he can passthrough usb to that vm I would think Also when I tried to do cable card tuner I passed through to my windows VM and had issues. I moved to the hd homerun prime from my ceton which eliminated that ussue. I am sure there are many other performance related issue that would arise though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRA 39 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) I too have heard vt-d works better with ati. But.... Do you use a remote? How do you see the vmware console screen if there's a problem without a second video card? What about a tv tuner / cablecard? Yes , a whs acting as a htpc can be considered a htpc - but its not a complete htpc. There are many levels/items to consider and explain. @@KRA, perhaps you can expand more on your answer. If anyone is interested I could list my hardware, but it's 2 years old now, so it's probably not of any use. But this is my setup software/system wise: Base system esxi 5.0 (5.1 has usb issues, 5.5 should work) Currently I use the following VM - Freenas9 with a Asus PIKE harddisk controller assigned to VM with VT-x hosting 6 harddisks in ZFS NAS enviroment - Ubuntu 14.04 LTS hosting a email server (data securly stored on the NAS) - Ubuntu 14.04 LTS with internal USB controller assigned to VM with VT-x hosting my cardreader/subscription cards for TV - Ubuntu 14.04 LTS with internal USB controller and pci-e tv-tuner assigned to VM with VT-x running USB based and pci-e based tv-tuner for tvheadend tv-server backend. This one also runs my MB3 install as of this week. 2GB harddisk assigned to VM via raw device mapping from internal disk controller. - xbmcbuntu with ATi graphics and a pci-e usb/firewire controller for xbmc frontend video/audio via hdmi. MCE remote via usb currently not in use, but was using before I started migrating to linux: - WHS2011 home server hosting Several different tv-server backends over past 2 years (Nextpvr/Argus/mediaportal etc) With pci-e tv-tuner and internal USB controller using vt-x. MB3 Server. 2GB harddisk assigned to VM via raw device mapping from internal disk controller. - Windows7 frontend with ATi graphics and pci-e usb/firewire controller for xbmc/mediaportal frontend with video/audio via hdmi. Full DXVA/HW support. MCE remote via USB I just love the simplicity of making a VM rather than install a seperate system, it's so easy when testing several systems, migrating from windows based MB3 to linux based was done on same hardware without downtime at all. My NAS system was initially based on Openindiana, but I simply moved my PIKE harddisk controller from the Openindiana to Freenas VM and basically had no downtime. Oh, and as for the monitor output for ESXI, I don't need it, it's there for the better part of boot (bios, raid etc) then halfway through loading ESXI it is lost and assigned to VM. Edited July 10, 2014 by KRA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeMac 17 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 so 16 vcpu's is a liitle bit overflow will go down to 8vcpus and 4 GB RAM. Since you have the equipment already, experiment! Go both ends of the spectrum... 2 vcpu and 8 vcpu and more vcpu. Transcode some vids simultaneously and choose what works best - then report back on the clients used and what you've settled on. Be aware i believe the clients and other unknown things may also be factors - like wireless networks. See here for an example.... http://mediabrowser.tv/community/index.php?/topic/7603-recommendations-on-cpu/?p=102716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeMac 17 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 If he needs remote then he can passthrough usb to that vm I would think Also when I tried to do cable card tuner I passed through to my windows VM and had issues. I moved to the hd homerun prime from my ceton which eliminated that ussue. I am sure there are many other performance related issue that would arise though. Yes, thats my point... Theres always something that doesnt work 100%. Passthru usb i figured but ya never know. I use and recommend the hdhr prime myself. I just love the simplicity of making a VM rather than install a seperate system, it's so easy when testing several systems, migrating from windows based MB3 to linux based was done on same hardware without downtime at all. My NAS system was initially based on Openindiana, but I simply moved my PIKE harddisk controller from the Openindiana to Freenas VM and basically had no downtime. Oh, and as for the monitor output for ESXI, I don't need it, it's there for the better part of boot (bios, raid etc) then halfway through loading ESXI it is lost and assigned to VM. Agreed. I have recently started using vhd's too to get benefit of higher performance and an easy 'snapshot'. The console is not needed 99% of the time so this is acceptable, but without an ati video card, this isnt always easily accomplished. I will consider this option on my next htpc when win7 is no longer ideal or my hardware dies - by then, it should be easier. For now, I still believe a win7 host is easiest for most people and then use vmware workstation or virtual box or something to host other vms. You get full power to the host for transcoding and still get to use virtualization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Baron 64 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Query for those who are using a Guest OS to house one of the MB Clients, did you have an issues getting the guest OS to detect a IR blaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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